Placing final bets – //BUILD/

With the super event close it’s time to make your final bets. We all got bits of information from here and there but what do we know by the end of next week. Here my predictions:

1. The new native UI framework will be XAML based.

Ok, we all pretty sure about that on what we saw in the leaked builds, movements between DevDiv and WinDivand heard about Jupiter.

2. Besides HTML5, modern C++ will get main focus for Windows development .

I’m pretty sure that Jupiter brings XAML to C++ developer and since WinDiv owns XAML now it will be first class for native apps. Of course there will be wrapper for the .NET world Winking smile. Channel9 also focuses more on C++ lately and the next version of version of VisusalStudio is expected to have advanced support for C++ development. By the way; now it makes sense why Visual C++ it’s going to be WinC++

3. Silverlight (as we know) dies.

When I say Silverlight here than I mean the plugin that runs in various browsers on Windows and OSX. Silverlight will live for while on WP7 and probably WP8. That’s why Silverlight is owned by the Phone team now. However, for the PC/Mac world will be no version 6.

Let me know what are your bets for //BUILD/. I will write an update on this post after //BUILD/  and mark my prediction.

PS: I really want to be wrong on number 3.

What do you think:

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9 thoughts on “Placing final bets – //BUILD/

  1. I think that its all about “decoupling” in several windows client dimensions. All your points are probably true, but nothing will be thrown completelly away, MS never does this, he cannot… Main big thing is Hyper-V which allows to decouple legacy (.NET winforms/win32, win16, dos, …) apps from windows kernel, as everything legacy will seamlessly run virtually and os kernel remains very thin from now. In fact, WPF was built as manaaged working prototype for future native solution, to prove required features, not to design something new from the engineering desk, but from real modern applications requirements. Then Silverlight was built as native reimplementation of win32 bound WPF to test possible decoupling from windows kernel (and successfully tested in MacOSX runtime). What really Silverlight is? Two parts: a) fully native “agcore” UI rendering/eventing engine using native XAML parser, b) JS and quickly .NET Compact Framework based CoreCLR sandbox used for “scripting” the native agcore. Nothing more.Now, as SL4 and upcomming SL5 are delivering sufficient legacy win32 UI features replacement (in fact FAR more features just for modern apps, using native XAML based rendering engine), its time to merge (or rewrite again, I dont know:-) this decoupled engine back to new lightweight kernel, which in fact cannot be even named “windows” at all, as it has nothing common with legacy windows. Its simply MODERN (learning also from WindowsCE kernel, which was totally fresh, unicode only, from its start in 1.0, but more from 4.2 and finally 6.0, being hard-realtime kernel for embedded devices), and anything legacy can be today executed with seamlless desktop integration and full virtualized power using Hyper-V (to be mad, also Linux/Android apps?). In fact, WinCE6 R3 introduced “Silverlight embedded” year ago (and this also powers WP7 in fact), with C++ interfacing to SL agcore UI, native XAML based UI controls, SDK for it etc. Today, Jupiter probably integrates this all as first-class UI library on top of Direct*** things, including also HTML5 with JS scripting for many simple applications which will have access also to new cleaned-up kernel and his new driver model to expose everything crucial even for HTML5/JS based apps (sure, it has nothing to do with web, here – they will be win8 bound, but easy doable for anyone knowing this technologies too). Also here is something as “SLR” mentioned, so on top of lightweight kernel (and the key is partially PART of it?) to have full .NET based apps far more efficient and manageable by kernel for power/resources allocation with new portable devices. Last but not least – XAML: Nothing else matters (Sad but true for Google and Apple :-)). Thats all my opinions based on some kind of magic brainstorming, so take it easy :-)

    falken

  2. mixworxPetr Antos :

    I think that its all about “decoupling” in several windows client dimensions. All your points are probably true, but nothing will be thrown completelly away, MS never does this, he cannot…Main big thing is Hyper-V which allows to decouple legacy (.NET winforms/win32, win16, dos, …) apps from windows kernel, as everything legacy will seamlessly run virtually and os kernel remains very thin from now.

    Of course not, but should Silverlight already become legacy technology on Windows8?

    Then Silverlight was built as native reimplementation of win32 bound WPF to test possible decoupling from windows kernel (and successfully tested in MacOSX runtime). What really Silverlight is? Two parts: a) fully native “agcore” UI rendering/eventing engine using native XAML parser, b) JS and quickly .NET Compact Framework based CoreCLR sandbox used for “scripting” the native agcore. Nothing more.

    OSX as a test environment? You probably right, but for me it is the main feature. I can develop modern apps on Windows with the power of VS and deploy effortless to Windows and OSX. Even Java developer can just dream about such a painless platform independence. And I was hoping for MoonLight to catch up with the support of Microsoft.

    its time to merge (or rewrite again, I dont know:-) this decoupled engine back to new lightweight kernel, which in fact cannot be even named “windows” at all, as it has nothing common with legacy windows. Its simply MODERN (learning also from WindowsCE kernel, which was totally fresh, unicode only, from its start in 1.0, but more from 4.2 and finally 6.0, being hard-realtime kernel for embedded devices), and anything legacy can be today executed with seamlless desktop integration and full virtualized power using Hyper-V (to be mad, also Linux/Android apps?). In fact, WinCE6 R3 introduced “Silverlight embedded” year ago (and this also powers WP7 in fact), with C++ interfacing to SL agcore UI, native XAML based UI controls, SDK for it etc. Today, Jupiter probably integrates this all as first-class UI library on top of Direct*** things, including also HTML5 with JS scripting for many simple applications which will have access also to new cleaned-up kernel and his new driver model to expose everything crucial even for HTML5/JS based apps (sure, it has nothing to do with web, here – they will be win8 bound, but easy doable for anyone knowing this technologies too). Also here is something as “SLR” mentioned, so on top of lightweight kernel (and the key is partially PART of it?) to have full .NET based apps far more efficient and manageable by kernel for power/resources allocation with new portable devices.

    I’m not worried about Windows at all. As a matter of fact I’m pretty excited about Jupiter and all the other stuff coming to Windows. If you can write apps even with HTML5/JS, fine – as long as I don’t have to. Just he whole marketing around HTML and Windows is annoying.

    Last but not least – XAML: Nothing else matters (Sad but true for Google and Apple :-) ).

    You absolutely right. XAML rules. It’s a good thing that it’s owned by WinDiv now and becomes first class on Windows.

  3. I think that Silverlight will stay close to new kernel and will not be legacy, as it allows nice client apps to be developed for MacOSX. But nobody can force Google and Apple to implement it in CORE of HIS small devices, in Android it would be yet another strange abstraction, as there is already DalvikVM based on similar principle, but “””inspired””” by Java and small devices in fact really need native code, at least native to its platform development model. There will be huge C++ push for new windows desktop client may be, but I am doubt MS allow this in WP7 too, its dangerous, its “really” unsafe… until there will be some new safe native language (project Midori bound?), which is probably still in early development (Sorry, but C++ as a whole IS ugly, mainly because of backward compatibility issues, and something is wrong, if isnt possible to include some very simplifying features into new standard – MS can NOW at least try to simplify C++ development as much as possible using T4 code generation, by adding more debugging metadata etc… I dont know, and we will see it soon). Desktop Linux is away with its marketshare, its not worth to do commercially supported SL for it, community dont want this – there will be HTML5/JS, as everywhere, thats true, and simply not under MS control – and it was, is, and will be too quickly moving target…
    May be that on new windows SL XAP out-of-browser will be convertible to new APPX, to be more native at least here, who knows :-). I like MS way, it IS funny and innovative as nothing other, although most of socially networked trolls dont think so. They dont think probably at all…

  4. falken :

    I think that Silverlight will stay close to new kernel and will not be legacy, as it allows nice client apps to be developed for MacOSX.

    I think you are wrong here. Yes “Silverlight” wil stay close to the kernel and be optimizide and native to Windows. It will be part of what we know as Jupiter. However, because of that, there will be no OSX support anymore and what we know as Silverlight (the plugin) comes to an end.

  5. Here is nice interview (2006) with guy who managed WPF and WPF/e (SilverLight) development from its start in 2000/2001. Its still interresting, the more that this guy was DHTML guru, also delivering XmlHttpRequest, innerHtml etc. (because MS invented AJAX in fact). It is 10 years of strategic work looking forward, considering XHTML and native code from start, but introducing XAML for many reasons – obviously not easy for MS anymore, with really good competitors around … and sure, C++ isnt that bad, everything can be misused :-)
    http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/Michael-Wallent-Advent-and-Evolution-of-WPF

  6. Also … I dont know if I wasnt too aggressive about Hyper-V used internally to run “something-like-windows7″, but if there really is thick wall between “green” and “blue”, who knows …

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